[VAST 8] Class Editor shows strange behaviour

[jtuchel]

Hi there,

has anybody else seen this before?

If I browse a class in a Class Editor (the class browser with a view switcher and at least the Public Interface Editor in it), the instance method list sometimes empties when I click on a method name.

What exactly is happenning?

Open a class editor
Click on a method category
Click on an instance method name in the methods list

--> Instead of displaying the method source in the editing pane, the method list is emtied and the edit pane still shows a new method pattern

When this happens, there is a lttle artefact showing up in the methods list, which can be seen in the appended image. To me it looks like a tab from the new browser...

cu

Joachim

[attachment=0]ClassEditor.JPG[/attachment]

[jtuchel]

Hi again

I played with this phenomenon a bit. It gets quite funny.

The tab you see in the picture sometimes remains, and sometimes at also is the Public or the All tab.
And it seems the tabs are reacting to clicks, meaning when the category includes only public methods and you click at the position of the Private Tab, the method list is empty, and when you click back on the Public tab, the public methods are back again.

This seems to be a phantom tab strip You can switch between Public/Private/All by clicking on tabs that aren't really there.

I cannot remember seeing this in normal class browsers, only in the Class Editor.

Have fun with that one

Joachim

[jtuchel]

I keep posting replies to my own problem report...

It seems like the problem here is that the tabs are "behind" the methods list. Which is not the case on the Class Browser. The Tabs are present there, but not in the Class Editor. So maybe it's much less strange than it seems at first sight.

Pressing on the invisible Private Tab shows private methods, and if there are no private method, it is logical that the methods list is empty and no method source is shown.

So this all boils down to the fact that the Public/Private/All Tabs seem to be positioned behind the methods list but still react on mouse clicks.

Hope that helps fix it

Joachim

[tc]

Hello,

I do not see this behavior on Unix, however, I will say that different flavors of Unix sure react differently. Which flavor are you using?

Also, it looks like you turned off the notebook, the code unmanages the widget to do that. One thing to try is select 'options -> inspect -> window under pointer' in the Transcript and hold the mouse cursor over the class browser. When an inspector for the window opens, execute, in the inspector, 'methodListNotebook isManaged' which should return false (assuming the method list notebook is turned off).

--tc

[jtuchel]

Taylor,

this is an XP machine, not Unix. I do see the notebook on the Class Browser though.
I'll check that variable and tell you the results...

Joachim

[jtuchel]

Taylor,

in my image there is no implementor of methodListNotebook...
Where would I find the option to switch off the notebook?

Regards,

Joachim

[jtuchel]

Taylor,

I found the setting.
It's in an extremely unexepected place: in the Options menu of the Class editor. I was searching for it in the settings and preferences windows that I could find.
In my (clean) Image, checking/unchecking it doesn't change anything, even if I close the editor and reopen it.

Things are even stranger: If I uncheck it (the notebook is invisibly present anyways) and click on the first method in the method list (say, in place of the public tab), the behaviour is like described before and the menu option is checked after that click.

All of this is not happening on my Vista Box, I just see that on XP.

Strange...

Regards

Joachim

[marten]

While I can not reproduce Joachims problem - but I tried that under my XP - I got another problem with that browser:

a) Go to the organizer, double click on a class (a special class browser opens)
b) go to the "Script Editor" page of that class
c) select "Class"
d) Uncheck "Use method list notebook"
e) select a method category

-> no methods are listed ... it seems, that the value of the active tab in that method list notebook (before switching it off) is still used to filter methods (even without that notebook). Perhaps one should set the state to "All" before unswitching the notebook.

[tc]

it seems, that the value of the active tab in that method list notebook (before switching it off) is still used to filter methods

Yes, correct, the assumption is/was, the method list is filtering what the user wants it to filter before turning off the tabs.

Perhaps one should set the state to "All" before unswitching the notebook.

I will raise the issue in this week's meeting.

Thanks.

--tc

[marten]

it seems, that the value of the active tab in that method list notebook (before switching it off) is still used to filter methods

Yes, correct, the assumption is/was, the method list is filtering what the user wants it to filter before turning off the tabs.

Perhaps one should set the state to "All" before unswitching the notebook.

I will raise the issue in this week's meeting.

Thanks.

--tc

Is there a good reason to switch off that notebook widget (exept for speed enhancements) ? As Joachim mentioned in his blog, I also get the impression, that the 8.0 looks pretty nice, but the GUI is not very consistent and some options are nice, but are they useful ???

After working one day under Solaris (actually a slow machine) and Linux (virtual machine) I simply switch off all these GUI enhancements just to get a good GUI speed under these operating systems. The worst stuff (in the area of cpu time consuming under Unix) is the toolbar in all windows. Working with slow machines one can also see, that there seem to be too many redraws in some windows.

And once again: the best implementation of VA is under Windows, (then the no more available OS/2 implementation), then the Solaris (SPARC) implementation and then the Linux one ....

Marten

[tc]

Is there a good reason to switch off that notebook widget (exept for speed enhancements) ? As Joachim mentioned in his blog, I also get the impression, that the 8.0 looks pretty nice, but the GUI is not very consistent and some options are nice, but are they useful ???

There are things about the GUIs, functionality, that I do not have strong feelings about, however, many of the functions you see, such as switching off the method list notebook are decided by committee but I will raise the issue this week and ask if some of these functions are useful.

Thanks.

--tc

[jtuchel]

Marten,

Is there a good reason to switch off that notebook widget (exept for speed enhancements) ? As Joachim mentioned in his blog, I also get the impression, that the 8.0 looks pretty nice, but the GUI is not very consistent and some options are nice, but are they useful ???

I just listened to one of the last episodes of james' podcast and both Michael and James said they rarely use the toolbars in their Smalltalk IDE as well. And, I must say I had the same thought as you: how likely is it that someone wnats to use the new browsers but wants to switch off the method list notebook?

The blog post you mention is called "VA Smalltalk 8 Tabbed Browsers - what I’d like to see improved" and can be found here: http://joachim-tuchel.de/2009/06/29/va-smalltalk-8-tabbed-browsers-what-id-like-to-see-improved/
I'd like to invite verybody into a constructive disussion with this post. Hopefully, we'll agree on some things that help Instantiations carry the improvement process forward.

Taylor,

we're not bashing what has been done. The tabbed browsers are a visual improvement and give the environment some modern look and feel. But we understand that this is only the beginning of an improvement process that will take a few releases. If you (teh company) find the option useful, then it's for a reason. Maybe we just should know the reason and will shut up then

[tc]

Hello,

I can answer one question in your blog about widgets not being 'in' the notebook itself but under it. There are two reasons:

1. With a Window's tab strip, if the widget is inside the notebook then framing specs do not work. When the window is resized, a resize callback would have to be used and that sends lines up and down the window. It looks terrible, IMO.

2. On the Unix side, the notebook is emulated. Putting the text (source) pane on a notebook page means putting a text pane on each page, however, the model in the superclasses assumes one text pane. The original browsers had a text pane for each notebook page but it created too many issues to be reliable.

On the issue of menus, my feeling is no matter what is done, someone (or a group of people) will not like it. Perhaps you could list five things to change with the menus (start off simple) and I'll see what I can do.

--tc

[jtuchel]

Taylor,

If I only have five wishes, I need to think carefully
But, honestly, I'll take a second look and think about the top handful of topics I find important.

Regards,

Joachim

[klaus]

Hello,

as you can see in Joachim's attached picture, there are two "Option" menus in the class browser. I miss a menu like "Classes".

Regards

Klaus